Grant Morrison's "Guardians of the Multi-Verse"?

[Louis Lane]

According to a poster on the DC boards (http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000103293&messageID=2003406747), Grant Morrison stated, "My one regret about my brief falling out with DC after the 'Superman Incident' is that I didn't get to do my Hypercrisis series at DC...The Guardians of The Multiverse and a new Green Lantern Corps made up of parallel reality Green Lanterns..."

DC's rationale for COIE was to make the DC Universe more friendly for new readers. Maybe they've decided the commerical benefits of the Multi-verse outweigh the drawbacks...

Looking forward to the rumored "Countdown".

LL

[Crump's Brother]

"Superman incident"?

[Nobody]

"Superman incident"?

Morrison, Millar, Waid and Peyer pitched to revamp the entire Superman line in the mid-to-late 90s. They were given an okay by one editor, but then rejected by another, who thought the pitch was too "out-there".

[drastic_q]

Morrison, Millar, Waid and Peyer pitched to revamp the entire Superman line in the mid-to-late 90s. They were given an okay by one editor, but then rejected by another, who thought the pitch was too "out-there".
I wonder if we're seeing bits of those story lines in All-Star?

[Tobias]

I wonder if we're seeing bits of those story lines in All-Star?
Yeah I believe so. Or that's what I heard at least.

[KyleV]

Not exactly.

The gist of the pitch involved Mxyhoweveryouspellthat becoming something of a bad ass along the lines of Moore's "What Happened to the Man of Tomorrow." The end result would be that Superman would have to choose to have the present altered to save the world or something -- basically, Clark and Lois would no longer be married and Lois would no longer know who he was.

I'm not sure if it would be a full reset, or what, but it would be along those lines.

The idea is that they could then do something akin to All Star, but across four titles and still keeping pre-existing continuity.

[BillReed]

I wonder if we're seeing bits of those story lines in All-Star?

Hypercrisis would've had a Superman Squad, an Unknown Superman, and a time-eating monster, if I remember correctly, and those have shown up in All Star.

[Clem]

I dont know why DC worry about multiverses so much, Marvel has one and they deal with it just fine. You'd think its something to be ashamed of the way DC brings it in and out of existence every few years.

[ElijahSnowFan]

I dont know why DC worry about multiverses so much, Marvel has one and they deal with it just fine. You'd think its something to be ashamed of the way DC brings it in and out of existence every few years.

people keep saying that Marvel's not running a multiverse, but i guess i'm stupid, because the Ultimate universe is, from where i sit, no different than Earth 2.

and a 616-Ultimate crossover will happen eventually.

they'll deny and deny and deny, but Ultimate Power's happening right now. only someone with blinders on will say that Marvel isn't operating multiple universes right now.

as soon as TPTB decide it makes financial sense, a 616-Ultimate crossover will happen. it is the way of all things. and then we'll be done with all the Marvel "holier than thou" talk when they've been operating a multiverse for years.

[Alexander Knox]

Isn't there a book called Exiles that's all about the Marvel multiverses?

[Clem]

people keep saying that Marvel's not running a multiverse, but i guess i'm stupid, because the Ultimate universe is, from where i sit, no different than Earth 2.

and a 616-Ultimate crossover will happen eventually.

they'll deny and deny and deny, but Ultimate Power's happening right now. only someone with blinders on will say that Marvel isn't operating multiple universes right now.

as soon as TPTB decide it makes financial sense, a 616-Ultimate crossover will happen. it is the way of all things. and then we'll be done with all the Marvel "holier than thou" talk when they've been operating a multiverse for years.

To be fair, Supreme Power was pretty much an Ultimate title, at least in theme. It just got lucky enough to have a universe all by itself. It figures those two would crossover.

But yeah, i completely agree that there will be an eventual 616/Ultimate crossover. But it probably wont come until the Ultimate universe is in a financial rut and needs a boost. It just needs desperation to set in.

[Kolimar]

I dont know why DC worry about multiverses so much, Marvel has one and they deal with it just fine. You'd think its something to be ashamed of the way DC brings it in and out of existence every few years.

It's complicated but I'll try to explain based on what I know and think:

Marvel's never had truly important alternate universes in the confusing, messed-up yet vital-for-the-main-continuity way DC had. During the Silver Age, the editorial oversight was far from strict (continuity was definitely not a major concern) sometimes and it led to many confusions, contradictions and controversies. Sometimes you couldn't tell which universe the character was from. Sometimes the character didn't fit any previous description and it was explained away saying it was an imaginary story or from another alternate universe. :D

Several alternate universes were actively and more or less regularly used

Fans began to protest. Marvel was ahead in sales numbers and they didn't have to deal with this kind of mess because their universe was younger and the continuity was much simpler.

The idea was to emulate Marvel so DC's creators and fans could focus on a single universe, simpler to edit, create and follow. After COIE "solved" the problem (another source of complaints as the reboot wasn’t well executed), the Multiverse concept, in a way, became a sort of primary example of some of the negative aspects of the Silver Age DCU.

The problem wasn’t really the Multiverse but the careless way in which it was used. The concept itself is fairly simple (despite the endless number of people saying they don’t understand it) and effective, not to mention one of the best known in sci-fi.

As the years passed, the universes and their histories and characters were increasingly combined and the reimagined single universe became stronger, and the return of the Multiverse became harder.

It doesn’t help that, by the very nature of the concept, the Multiverse can’t possibly not exist. There have been partial returns/homages like in Morrison’s Animal Man, Mark Waid’s Hypertime (a perfectly simple and elegant tool that has been utterly ignored for the most part ever since) in the Kingdom, the new Tales of the Unexpected, etc.

Lots of creators and fans alike share a deep fondness for and understanding of it but there are many others that see it as silly/stupid nostalgia for the old times and the Pre-COIE Silver Age silliness.

I’d say they want to bring it back but they don’t know exactly how. How to make it fit with the current main DCU and its continuity and make it work with the least possible changes. They’d like to bring it back but, most importantly, without looking too much like they’re going too pre-COIE/Silver Age (of which they’ve been increasingly accused in the last couple of years already) thus avoiding as much as possible of the fan outcry, of which there’s to be a good deal, no matter what. Add to that the fact that it was a major editorial decision they said they’d never undo (iirc) and they’ve been without a true Multiverse for over 20 years so why change? Particularly when there are several big factors against it. Essentially, they’re stuck in the middle without being able to make up their minds. Hopefully, we’re moving toward a revamped Multiverse now.

Long winded, I know, and I probably said stuff you already know, but what can I do? :o :D


You'd think its something to be ashamed of the way DC brings it in and out of existence every few years.

A while after COIE, it became unofficial policy that the Multiverse was never truly and completely erased. It's always been there. On a different plane of reality. That gave them a way in and out of their own mess.

Zero Hour revisited the concept from the pov of time: alternate timelines. It wasn't the true Multiverse. There was no Earth Two, etc. And only to correct continuity goofs created with and since COIE. The alternate timelines were supposedly erased just like the alternate universes were erased in COIE. Not really but y'know... :D

Hypertime also didn't bring back the Multiverse. It incorporated the concept into a more encompassing one that simply allowed for the possibility of existence of alternate realities of any kind at some point. Alternate futures, pasts, realities that were completely different. Even if they no longer existed or have yet to be born. Everything that was, is, will be, could be, never was and never will be existed as possibilities in a constant omniversal flux from which they sprang to life. It also explained the continuity mistakes that are constantly made by creators and editors.

Everything else until IC were more like homages made in specific titles by some creators, instead of general DCU stuff.

[diana_fan]

Kolimar, that is one of the coolest posts I've ever read on Newsarama. Thanks a bunch. That was awesome.

I have two questions:

1) You mention Tales of the Unexpected. You are talking about the Dr. Thirteen back-up, right? And how it is possible (probable?) that they are in comic book limbo, like Morrison's Buddy visited, right? Or am I off base?

2) Hypertime sounds very cool. Part of the idea was, if I understand it, that all those stories, whether retconned, Elseworlds, or whatever, all "really" happened, right?

Anyways, thanks for the post. They are definitely going somewhere interesting with all of this, as Ion showed, for example. I can't wait.

[Clem]

The concept of alternate timelines kinda depresses me to be honest.

Theoretically, there are millions of different variants of me who managed to get rich, write many successful stories and bang Eliza Dushku, yet i'm the one stuck HERE?!?!?!

I got the bloody short straw of the multiverse damn it!

[Punchy]

The concept of alternate timelines kinda depresses me to be honest.

Theoretically, there are millions of different variants of me who managed to get rich, write many successful stories and bang Eliza Dushku, yet i'm the one stuck HERE?!?!?!

I got the bloody short straw of the multiverse damn it!

There's also a timeline where you're a syphilitic midget living in an alleyway giving blow<jdshdjsd>jobs for petty change.

So count yourself lucky.

[Clem]

There's also a timeline where you're a syphilitic midget living in an alleyway giving blow<jdshdjsd>jobs for petty change.

So count yourself lucky.

Touche....