CROSSGEN APOLOGIZES FOR FAILING TO SUBMIT MATERIALS FOR EISNER CONSIDERATION [Archive]

MattBrady

04-15-2003, 04:12 PM

Press Release

<blockquote>The management team at CrossGen Entertainment wants to apologize to our readers for failing to submit our creators and titles for the 2003 Eisner Awards. Regardless of whether this would have resulted in more of our creators or titles reaching the ballot, our loyal readers deserved to have their favorite creators and titles submitted for nomination. And it goes without saying that our creators deserved the same.

Please know that this omission was not intentional, but was simply a case of us letting the nomination procedure slip through the cracks. There isn't a single member of this management team who doesn't respect our creators' commitment to achievement of excellence. In fact, they are the hardest working team of creators in comics today.

So please accept our apology.

Sincerely,
Mark Alessi
Publisher & CEO
CrossGen Entertainment</blockquote>
Newsarama Note: Ruse colorist Laura Depuy Martin was nominated in the Best Colorist category. As Eisner Award Administrator Jackie Estrada <a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Esiners_2003.htm" target="_blank"> explained</a> judges may submit any material they feel is worthy of consideration if it is not submitted by a publisher. This, according to Estrada, is how Martin was considered - Jeremy Shorr brought copies of Ruse with him at her and judge Jen Contino's request.

QCCBob

04-15-2003, 04:29 PM

Probably just as well, shuts up the conspiracy theorists!!!

Hdefined

04-15-2003, 05:44 PM

Hm? What, they just forgot to enter?

Caleb Gerard

04-15-2003, 06:48 PM

It is freaking facsinating that they would just miss this. This would have to be the 1st shipping that CrossGen has missed to date then.

Caleb

Tom Daylight

04-15-2003, 06:50 PM

To be honest, I didn't even notice.

In fact I've pretty much forgotten that Crossgen even exists...

Todd VerBeek

04-15-2003, 10:07 PM

What I don't understand is why sites publish contrived "announcements" like this one.

OK, CrossGen forgot to submit stuff to the Eisners. It happens. So call the staff together before they all break for lunch and apologise to them, because they're the ones who may have been shortchanged.

The notion that the publiser has to apologise to its readers for this is just absurd. I mean, what reader is really going to be hurt because something they bought wasn't nominated for an award?

If the goal of the press release is to explain why they didn't sweep the awards, then CrossGen should be up-front about that and not make up crap like this "apology to the fans". Or at the least Newsarama should dump the pretense around which the press release was written and use the info as the basis for a news article.

KittyPop

04-16-2003, 12:06 AM

I can figure CrossGen prolly wrote this "announcement" to quiet the rabid fans down.

I read CrossGen but I am one of the saner fans.

If something wasn't said... :rolleyes: I would just continue the cult aura of the company.

soydemexicoDF

04-16-2003, 03:16 AM

Really is shameful to read this.
A respectful company ?
Crossgen sincerely is a universe really not understandable. Really difficult to dig in.
Try anyone at any age, everyone will prefer either a Supes title or a Batman, but a Ruse, or a Sojourn or something like that.
Create an icon and it will stand.
This sincerely reads as an apology for doing bad work.
I really liked Chuck Dixon work but now it doesnt matter. I was sincerely ashamed at every announcement of they taking really good pencillers and inkers. But now what we have seen, anything that has increased their orders, only they have increased their bills.
Crossgens unless Bill Gates continue giving you money, lets begin saying I will promote buying comics that will be followed in 20 , 30 years, not comics like the Ultraverse line 2003, or we should say Crossgen?

AllAboutMe

04-16-2003, 08:01 AM

How embarrassing for the marketing department at CrossGen. "Slip through the cracks?" Being nominated for an Eisner is great publicity for a book and a company. It will at least garner interest in the nominated book by those who do not normally pick it up. Winning an Eisner? Sure is great to have the tagline "Eisner-Winner" attached to a creator or book.
CG really dropped the ball on this one.

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 08:13 AM

Some points.

First of all, have you even READ a Crossgen title? Their characters are just as much icons as any other. Arwyn the archer. Gareth the one eyed sidekick (though he wouldn't like that one!). Sam Rey the living bomb. And I haven't even started on the icons that the First are.

Second, as far as it being the "ultraverse of 2003", that's a load of bull. Crossgen's revenues have been increasing exponentially and they've even had enough revenue to comparmentalize.

Third, Crossgen is the best company in the market. Their ideas are sound. They give readers umpteen choices to read their books. You can get the single issues, the regular sized tradeds, the traveller trades, the compendia, the Comics on the Web, and the upcoming comics on CD/DVD.

What does Marvel/DC do? "Buy the issue or you're screwed. A trade? Oh, we might get around to doing one eventually if sales warrant."

And that's IF the company doesn't cancel the title for not being in the Top 100. Ever hear of a CG title being cancelled? Of course not! Because they CARE about their titles and can sell them in more ways than just the singles.

And as far as the "conspiracy theorists" talking about the last time with Mark Waid, etc, I'd say, "Get a life." and "None of your business." Crossgen doesn't have to share it's interpersonal business dealings with us any more than you have to report to them.

Christopher

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 08:16 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AllAboutMe:
How embarrassing for the marketing department at CrossGen. "Slip through the cracks?" Being nominated for an Eisner is great publicity for a book and a company. It will at least garner interest in the nominated book by those who do not normally pick it up. Winning an Eisner? Sure is great to have the tagline "Eisner-Winner" attached to a creator or book.
CG really dropped the ball on this one.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I agree it's a huge mistake, but you have to figure they're working hard on the comics. Think about how much work they have to do to get it out on time every month and in a variety of formats. I'm sure it's hair pulling stressful.

So I forgive them for it, this time. If they do it again next year, I'll agree that they should get their heads out of their butts. :D

Christopher

Jackie Chan's Pants

04-16-2003, 08:49 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Some points.

First of all, have you even READ a Crossgen title? Their characters are just as much icons as any other. Arwyn the archer. Gareth the one eyed sidekick (though he wouldn't like that one!). Sam Rey the living bomb. And I haven't even started on the icons that the First are.

Second, as far as it being the "ultraverse of 2003", that's a load of bull. Crossgen's revenues have been increasing exponentially and they've even had enough revenue to comparmentalize.

Third, Crossgen is the best company in the market. Their ideas are sound. They give readers umpteen choices to read their books. You can get the single issues, the regular sized tradeds, the traveller trades, the compendia, the Comics on the Web, and the upcoming comics on CD/DVD.

What does Marvel/DC do? "Buy the issue or you're screwed. A trade? Oh, we might get around to doing one eventually if sales warrant."

And that's IF the company doesn't cancel the title for not being in the Top 100. Ever hear of a CG title being cancelled? Of course not! Because they CARE about their titles and can sell them in more ways than just the singles.

And as far as the "conspiracy theorists" talking about the last time with Mark Waid, etc, I'd say, "Get a life." and "None of your business." Crossgen doesn't have to share it's interpersonal business dealings with us any more than you have to report to them.

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>To respond to your points: Yes, I have read 7 Crossgen titles. Dropped them after 15 issues. They were just not to my liking. As far as Crossgen making 'icons', well, not sure I agree there. The defenition of icon is:i·con-An important and enduring symbol: "Voyager will take its place ... alongside such icons of airborne adventure as The Spirit of St. Louis and [the] Bell X-1" (William D. Marbach).
One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol: "He is ... a pop icon designed and manufactured for the video generation" (Harry F. Waters). Not sure if Crossgen characters have reached icon status yet.

2. I do agree on the point that Crossgen's revenues are up, and have continued to do so. On this, I say good for them.

3. As far as Crossgen being the best company on the market, that is more opinion than fact. As far as complaining about Marvel's issues. I don't know what store you go to, but in addition to the single issues, you also have the 'must have' editions, Marvel normally releases a trade about a week after a mini is finished, or a week or two after an arc is finished. They also have comics on the web, and were doing it before Crossgen.

As far as cancelling titles, Marvel does what it feels is necessary for the bottom line, same as DC. Readership on Crossgen titles has grown by more than 50% (but it still isn't close to the readership on most Marvel or DC properties. Of course they aren't going to cancel books that have increased readership that much. That would be silly.

In regards to the actual article--I find it hard to believe that Crossgen 'forgot'. They have had no problems touting their accomplishments and offering themselves up as an alternative to 'the big 2", so missing an opportunity like this seems bizarre. Still, mistakes happen....life goes on...

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 08:59 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jackie Chan's Pants:
To respond to your points: Yes, I have read 7 Crossgen titles. Dropped them after 15 issues. They were just not to my liking. As far as Crossgen making 'icons', well, not sure I agree there. The defenition of icon is:i·con-An important and enduring symbol: "Voyager will take its place ... alongside such icons of airborne adventure as The Spirit of St. Louis and [the] Bell X-1" (William D. Marbach).

My point was, the characters WILL be icons, they already have the potential. Once they get movies, tv shows, etc, more people will know about them. Crossgen is still young, barely what, three years old?

[QUOTE]3. As far as Crossgen being the best company on the market, that is more opinion than fact. As far as complaining about Marvel's issues. I don't know what store you go to, but in addition to the single issues, you also have the 'must have' editions, Marvel normally releases a trade about a week after a mini is finished, or a week or two after an arc is finished. They also have comics on the web, and were doing it before Crossgen. <hr /></blockquote>Okay, so which issues are reprinted in "must have" editions? I want to try out New Xmen. Give me a must have edition. As for trades, they do NOT reprint everything like Crossgen does, and they've been late getting them out besides.

As for Marvel's "Comics on the Web", you're joking, right? Their cheap version is NOTHING like Crossgen's CotW. Can you get voices to read the book to you? Can you get to see the pencils, inks, etc? Can you see EVERY issue ever printed in the last two/three years? (I won't say entire history since Marvel's way older, and that wouldn't be fair. But just recent history would be fine.)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />As far as cancelling titles, Marvel does what it feels is necessary for the bottom line, same as DC. Readership on Crossgen titles has grown by more than 50% (but it still isn't close to the readership on most Marvel or DC properties. Of course they aren't going to cancel books that have increased readership that much. That would be silly. <hr /></blockquote>And yet, according to you, Marvel books make more than Crossgen, since they have larger readerships. So there's no need to cancel due to "the bottomline", is there?

My point is, Marvel cancels ANYTHING that isn't Top 100, and that's ridiculous.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />In regards to the actual article--I find it hard to believe that Crossgen 'forgot'. They have had no problems touting their accomplishments and offering themselves up as an alternative to 'the big 2", so missing an opportunity like this seems bizarre. Still, mistakes happen....life goes on...<hr /></blockquote>I think it was just a harmless mistake. It's an awards show, not life or death.

Christopher

The Mirrorball Man

04-16-2003, 09:49 AM

"Oh! I am neglecting your Highness! Oooh! There is no napkin for her higness! There is no napkin! Oh! What a fool am I! What a fiend! What a disgusting guy am I! Please, will you stab me in my chest! Then, I msut be flambed alive, first the brandy, then set fire to me, Celestial Being. I must be punished... But also, I must be delicious!"

IguanaPop

04-16-2003, 09:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Todd VerBeek:
What I don't understand is why sites publish contrived "announcements" like this one.<hr /></blockquote>I guess you'd rather have 'em do something along the lines of "U-Decide" then? :rolleyes:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />OK, CrossGen forgot to submit stuff to the Eisners. It happens. So call the staff together before they all break for lunch and apologise to them, because they're the ones who may have been shortchanged.<hr /></blockquote>They probably already did. However, these creators DO have fans that probably feel that the creators deserve public recognition for their work. Personally, I feel that Paul Pelletier deserves more props than he gets. I'm not bent out of shape that he doesn't have an Eisner or wasn't even nominated for one....but I do feel he deserves more recognition. :mad:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The notion that the publiser has to apologise to its readers for this is just absurd. I mean, what reader is really going to be hurt because something they bought wasn't nominated for an award?<hr /></blockquote>I check the CG boards now and then, and there were a couple of fans that were thinking that CG was being snubbed. This press release kinda defuses that, IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If the goal of the press release is to explain why they didn't sweep the awards, then CrossGen should be up-front about that and not make up crap like this "apology to the fans". <hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting some X-Files conspiracy thing where CrossGen deliberately withheld nominations because they didn't think they'd win? :confused:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Or at the least Newsarama should dump the pretense around which the press release was written and use the info as the basis for a news article.<hr /></blockquote>Well..Newsarama IS a news site and they do print press releases from other companies in addition to their interviews, news articles, etc. If Matt and co figure this or something else is worth doing something further that's more in-depth, they'll probably do it in a few days or weeks.
Buuuuuut...you've pretty much said it's a non-story...so why go any further? :p

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 09:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Mirrorball Man:
"Oh! I am neglecting your Highness! Oooh! There is no napkin for her higness! There is no napkin! Oh! What a fool am I! What a fiend! What a disgusting guy am I! Please, will you stab me in my chest! Then, I msut be flambed alive, first the brandy, then set fire to me, Celestial Being. I must be punished... But also, I must be delicious!"<hr /></blockquote>Eh? What?

Christopher

Jackie Chan's Pants

04-16-2003, 10:18 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Mirrorball Man:
"Oh! I am neglecting your Highness! Oooh! There is no napkin for her higness! There is no napkin! Oh! What a fool am I! What a fiend! What a disgusting guy am I! Please, will you stab me in my chest! Then, I msut be flambed alive, first the brandy, then set fire to me, Celestial Being. I must be punished... But also, I must be delicious!"<hr /></blockquote>Eh? What?

I was wondering the exact same thing myself, Chris. :confused:

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>

IguanaPop

04-16-2003, 10:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by soydemexicoDF:
Crossgen sincerely is a universe really not understandable. Really difficult to dig in. <hr /></blockquote>

I dunno...I don't consider myself extraordinarilly brilliant and I found some of their books easily accessible.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Create an icon and it will stand.<hr /></blockquote>One doesn't create an icon...icons tend to take on a life of their own. Siegel and Schuster didn't set out to create a character that would be recognizable to the world...and neither did Stan and Jack. Those guys were just trying to entertain folks with their stories. I see CrossGen doing the same thing in that regard.

Will their characters stand the test of time like Superman or Spider-Man? Who knows?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />This sincerely reads as an apology for doing bad work. <hr /></blockquote>This particular sentence sincerely reads like someone who'll read into something that's just not there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I really liked Chuck Dixon work but now it doesnt matter.<hr /></blockquote>And why is that? If you liked him as a writer PERIOD, I don't see what's changed. He's still writing, for God's sake. Just because he's tackling subject matter or doing it for a company you've got some bias against that you have no interest in makes him no less a writer in that regard.

Only in the comic industry do we see silly comments like this. I like Tom Hanks as an actor...but if he ever signs a five-picture deal with Warner Bros, he's a hack! Kinda silly, ain't it?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I was sincerely ashamed at every announcement of they taking really good pencillers and inkers.<hr /></blockquote>Why are YOU ashamed? Did you play a factor in these pencillers and inkers deciding they wanted to do something different than spandex-clad characters?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But now what we have seen, anything that has increased their orders, only they have increased their bills.<hr /></blockquote>They must be doing something right. I mean...for a company that started out three or four years ago from scratch, they've done a decent job of hanging around. I say that because they've expanded the company immensely and gotten themselves up in the Top 4.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Crossgens unless Bill Gates continue giving you money, lets begin saying I will promote buying comics that will be followed in 20 , 30 years, not comics like the Ultraverse line 2003, or we should say Crossgen?<hr /></blockquote>Are you psychic or something? How do you know that even Marvel and DC will be around in 20-30 years? It wasn't too long ago that everyone was thinking Marvel would collapse...and they came pretty close to doing so. Who's to say it won't happen again with either of the Big Two? Who's to say that CrossGen WON'T be around in 20-30 years? If you know this for a fact, then I really need to know where you bought your crystal ball. I'm really wanting to know what this week's lottery numbers are going to be.

IguanaPop

04-16-2003, 10:50 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Some points.

First of all, have you even READ a Crossgen title? Their characters are just as much icons as any other. Arwyn the archer. Gareth the one eyed sidekick (though he wouldn't like that one!). Sam Rey the living bomb. And I haven't even started on the icons that the First are.

<hr /></blockquote>Gotta disagree with you here, guy. I'm thinking that when folks refer to characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc....they're talking about CULTURAL icons. In that context, nothing CrossGen has will fit that bill.
Given time, maybe that will change. But does a character REALLY need to be an icon to be enjoyable? Daredevil was hardly an icon and he's been around for over 30 years...but he's starting to see quite a bit of mainstream attention due to the movie. But prior to the movie, he still had some good stories about him to read.

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 11:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IguanaPop:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Some points.

First of all, have you even READ a Crossgen title? Their characters are just as much icons as any other. Arwyn the archer. Gareth the one eyed sidekick (though he wouldn't like that one!). Sam Rey the living bomb. And I haven't even started on the icons that the First are.

<hr /></blockquote>Gotta disagree with you here, guy. I'm thinking that when folks refer to characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc....they're talking about CULTURAL icons. In that context, nothing CrossGen has will fit that bill.
Given time, maybe that will change. But does a character REALLY need to be an icon to be enjoyable? Daredevil was hardly an icon and he's been around for over 30 years...but he's starting to see quite a bit of mainstream attention due to the movie. But prior to the movie, he still had some good stories about him to read.<hr /></blockquote>I see what you're saying. It's just that what I meant was that each of CG's characters has a unique identity that is definable. If you mean a cultural icon, then no, CG doesn't right now. They probably will though.

Christopher

Frans Blix

04-16-2003, 12:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:


My point was, the characters WILL be icons, they already have the potential. Once they get movies, tv shows, etc, more people will know about them. Crossgen is still young, barely what, three years old?

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>You're guaranteeing CG will produce icons? Pretty lofty, there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Well, I agree it's a huge mistake, but you have to figure they're working hard on the comics. Think about how much work they have to do to get it out on time every month and in a variety of formats. I'm sure it's hair pulling stressful.<hr /></blockquote>All fine and well. I don't think it's a big deal either, but remember this is the company that one year ago had a very organized campaign to get nominatees for the Harvey Awards. On top of that, they encouraged block voting for the Wizard Fan Awards.

Again, I don't think the Eisner thing is a big deal, but I don't understand how they go from ultra-assertive one year to completely passive the next. Just odd, and they brought more attention to this oddity with the press release.

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 12:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Frans Blix:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:


My point was, the characters WILL be icons, they already have the potential. Once they get movies, tv shows, etc, more people will know about them. Crossgen is still young, barely what, three years old?

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>You're guaranteeing CG will produce icons? Pretty lofty, there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Well, I agree it's a huge mistake, but you have to figure they're working hard on the comics. Think about how much work they have to do to get it out on time every month and in a variety of formats. I'm sure it's hair pulling stressful.<hr /></blockquote>All fine and well. I don't think it's a big deal either, but remember this is the company that one year ago had a very organized campaign to get nominatees for the Harvey Awards. On top of that, they encouraged block voting for the Wizard Fan Awards.

Again, I don't think the Eisner thing is a big deal, but I don't understand how they go from ultra-assertive one year to completely passive the next. Just odd, and they brought more attention to this oddity with the press release.<hr /></blockquote>CGE has upwards of two to three hundred characters in their universe right now with more always popping in. Most of the titles are slated for a movie, animated movie, cartoon, game, or some similar form of media; some have more than one.

I'd say odds are, yes, at least a few of them will become icons. Why wouldn't they?

Christopher

Steve Viscusi

04-16-2003, 12:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Frans Blix:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:


My point was, the characters WILL be icons, they already have the potential. Once they get movies, tv shows, etc, more people will know about them. Crossgen is still young, barely what, three years old?

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>You're guaranteeing CG will produce icons? Pretty lofty, there.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
Well, I agree it's a huge mistake, but you have to figure they're working hard on the comics. Think about how much work they have to do to get it out on time every month and in a variety of formats. I'm sure it's hair pulling stressful.<hr /></blockquote>All fine and well. I don't think it's a big deal either, but remember this is the company that one year ago had a very organized campaign to get nominatees for the Harvey Awards. On top of that, they encouraged block voting for the Wizard Fan Awards.

Again, I don't think the Eisner thing is a big deal, but I don't understand how they go from ultra-assertive one year to completely passive the next. Just odd, and they brought more attention to this oddity with the press release.<hr /></blockquote>CGE has upwards of two to three hundred characters in their universe right now with more always popping in. Most of the titles are slated for a movie, animated movie, cartoon, game, or some similar form of media; some have more than one.

I'd say odds are, yes, at least a few of them will become icons. Why wouldn't they?

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>Quick list the icons who were created in the past 25 years. Unless you count pikachu or Transformers as true icons and not just really popular characters then I would rate a random crossgen (or DC, or Dark Horse, or Mavel, or Oni, etc) characters chances as slim to none.

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 01:18 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quick list the icons who were created in the past 25 years. Unless you count pikachu or Transformers as true icons and not just really popular characters then I would rate a random crossgen (or DC, or Dark Horse, or Mavel, or Oni, etc) characters chances as slim to none.<hr /></blockquote>As you've mentioned, Pokemon for one. Then there's Yu Gi Oh, any number of rappers or pop stars, Powerpuff Girls, and the Simpsons, just to name a few. If I thought it out I could think of quite a few more most likely.

Just because comics hasn't produced any in years doesn't mean anything. Comics went into a death slump. They're getting out of it, things are better, and you'll see more attention brought to them.

Christopher

Mr. Special ED

04-16-2003, 01:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Quick list the icons who were created in the past 25 years. Unless you count pikachu or Transformers as true icons and not just really popular characters then I would rate a random crossgen (or DC, or Dark Horse, or Mavel, or Oni, etc) characters chances as slim to none.<hr /></blockquote>As you've mentioned, Pokemon for one. Then there's Yu Gi Oh, any number of rappers or pop stars, Powerpuff Girls, and the Simpsons, just to name a few. If I thought it out I could think of quite a few more most likely.

Just because comics hasn't produced any in years doesn't mean anything. Comics went into a death slump. They're getting out of it, things are better, and you'll see more attention brought to them.

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>I think the point was to name a COMIC icon that has been created in the last 20 years.

Yu Gi Oh is HARDLY a WORLDWIDE icon. These popstars or rap stars like EMINEM or Britney Spears - not icons either, just popular musicians for the time.

I WILL give you POKEMON and TRANSFORMERS as well as THE SIMPSONS. These are characters that are have achieved popculture status and will be remembered ALOT longer than EMINEM or even BRITNEY SPEARS.

As far as comics - ZERO.

Christopher Davis

04-16-2003, 01:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mr. Special ED:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Quick list the icons who were created in the past 25 years. Unless you count pikachu or Transformers as true icons and not just really popular characters then I would rate a random crossgen (or DC, or Dark Horse, or Mavel, or Oni, etc) characters chances as slim to none.<hr /></blockquote>As you've mentioned, Pokemon for one. Then there's Yu Gi Oh, any number of rappers or pop stars, Powerpuff Girls, and the Simpsons, just to name a few. If I thought it out I could think of quite a few more most likely.

Just because comics hasn't produced any in years doesn't mean anything. Comics went into a death slump. They're getting out of it, things are better, and you'll see more attention brought to them.

Christopher<hr /></blockquote>I think the point was to name a COMIC icon that has been created in the last 20 years.

Yu Gi Oh is HARDLY a WORLDWIDE icon. These popstars or rap stars like EMINEM or Britney Spears - not icons either, just popular musicians for the time.

I WILL give you POKEMON and TRANSFORMERS as well as THE SIMPSONS. These are characters that are have achieved popculture status and will be remembered ALOT longer than EMINEM or even BRITNEY SPEARS.

As far as comics - ZERO.<hr /></blockquote>Yu Gi Oh is a sensation in Japan and America, not sure where else. I'd definitely call it an icon. It's popularity is growing all the time.

As for your comment about comics not having any icons...so what? As I said, comics went into a slump. They ARE coming out of it, and the more they come out of it, the more chances of icons sticking with the general public.

And I have faith that it's going to happen...that Crossgen WILL make a dent in the real world.

Christopher

leez34

04-16-2003, 01:54 PM

Spawn is an icon.

I know many, many non-comic readers who know who Spawn is, whether it be through the comic, movie, cartoon, action figures, or Todd buying McGwire's 70th. He is an icon, and one created recently, I might add. He is recognizable and a semi-household name. So CrossGen needs a Spawn, is all. Then they'll have their icon.

Cray_ws

04-16-2003, 03:32 PM

The debate of Iconic characters is a flawed argument because no one force controls how a character(s) becomes iconic. Its purely choosen by the mass audience, time, and reputation.

However there are common sense tactics that can increase the chance of a character(s) becoming a household name. Those are....

Publicity, getting the word out who, where and what the character(s) is about. By making it public knowledge you increase awareness of the character(s) being in demand (people wanting to own something of the character(s), whether its comics, movies, clothes, and toys) and making sure the supply meets the demand on these things.

By making their character(s) available in multiple areas it increases the likelyhood of popularity or trend in buying habits.

Other ways to become iconic is simply by age and reputation for consistancy or some other appealing trait.

As it looks it appears Crossgen is doing all they can for their characters to become iconic. But ultimately its outta their hands and into the buyers hands.

Someone asked for comic-related icon.....How about the Teenage Mutant Turtles? they are still appealling to kids as they were so long ago. And mostly likely will be just as appealing in another 20yrs.

MattBrady

04-16-2003, 03:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cray_ws:
The debate of Iconic characters is a flawed argument because no one force controls how a character(s) becomes iconic. Its purely choosen by the mass audience, time, and reputation.<hr /></blockquote>And, as this thread has shown, and despite what VH1 may purport, icon can be largely subjective. While I don't think you'd find many people arguing that Mickey Mouse is an icon, I think some would argue (or give blank stares) when you mention Spawn or even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Iconic, in my mind, has to be original, archetypical. Merlin is iconic, Gandalf, not so much.

Personally, in regards to comic books, I would say that the culture at large really only recognizes the big guns of the industry as such: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, and the Hulk. Maybe Captain America, maybe X-Men. Each of the named iconic heroes are all original and in a way, archetypical, each with their own special characteristics that helped get them under the culture's microscope.

As I would see it, to be an icon, a property or character has to have deep penetration into the popular culture (which takes decades), not just be really, really popular, which several of the properties mentioned along here are. IMO, Harry Potter isn't an icon. If, 10 years after the final Harry Potter book comes out, we're all still talking about muggles and Hedgwig as some kind of verbal shorthand for larger ideas and concepts, then we'll talk.

But, in regards to comic properties/characters, I think anything created in the last 10-15 years has a long, long way to go before it is accepted into popular culture in an iconic fashion. I'd put TMNT into the trend category. Spawn - eh...maybe, but it's not clearly defined to the public, and doesn't have an archetypical feel - a dead guy who came back beacuse of his love for his wife? Heard it, seen it. Again, to be iconic, something has to have a very unique flavor and feel. The Turtles are another talking animal (albeit trendy), Spawn is a post-modern Victorian ghost story with a cape.

That's not saying there aren't icons or potential icons in pop culutre that have been created in the last 10 years or so. I'd argue that Lara Croft is well on her way, but currently experiencing some roadbumps, due to the lack of exposure (less penetration into the culture). The Simpsons are coming along as well (how many Simpsons references do you hear in a day?), but have years to go.

I'd also argue that Neo, Morpheus, or something about The Matrix is becoming iconic - not exactly sure what it is, though - I don't think it's a specific character.

Also, size of audience is very important - all fo the icons listed above were initially released to HUGE audiences, not niches of a specific market. Easier to penetrate into the culture if a few million people see it at any given exposure, rather than 15 - 20K.

MattB

Frans Blix

04-17-2003, 01:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Christopher Davis:


Third, Crossgen is the best company in the market. Their ideas are sound. They give readers umpteen choices to read their books. You can get the single issues, the regular sized tradeds, the traveller trades, the compendia, the Comics on the Web, and the upcoming comics on CD/DVD.

What does Marvel/DC do? "Buy the issue or you're screwed. A trade? Oh, we might get around to doing one eventually if sales warrant."

And that's IF the company doesn't cancel the title for not being in the Top 100. Ever hear of a CG title being cancelled? Of course not! Because they CARE about their titles and can sell them in more ways than just the singles.<hr /></blockquote>Well, in one fell swoop, CG just cancelled its its compendias and has one less option for readers to try their books.